Losing initiative for the entire army

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colinabrett
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:50 pm

Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by colinabrett » Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:17 pm

Hello,

I'm gearing up to run a Border Reivers campaign and have run a few test scenarios. The games will be run on 4'x4' boards, rather than the standard 2'x2' area.

One thing that cropped up is that when using cavalry (or monsters) is that an Behaviour test roll of 1 loses initiative for the entire force. A similar thing occurs when an Obscured Target roll comes up 1. To be fair, this came up mainly because of one player's terrible dice rolls on the Behaviour Test but it started quite a discussion after the game.

On a 2'x2' board, I can see how these events might "spook" or distract an entire force into losing initiative. It's a small area and everyone should be within sight or hearing of the event, hence the effect. On a larger table, however, it seems more likely that some members of the warband would be out of sight/hearing range and would not be affected by the event. We experimented with the idea that a roll of 1 on the Behaviour or Obscured test would lose initiative for that model only but the result didn't seem satisfactory. Further, such a house rule has a knock on effect with other tests (an attack of 1 is a terrible miss and loses initiative as well); why should "the roll of 1" apply in some situations and not others?

For the campaign, I want to stick with OC's rules-as-written but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has had experience of similar situations.

Regards,
Colin

fransotto
Posts: 259
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 10:58 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by fransotto » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:14 pm

My experience is maybe approx. total 20 models on a 2x2" table. I do agree with your thoughts of losing initiative on larger playing field, but I do not really have any solution but let me brain storming a little ;)

1. On larger playing field you have to lose initiative twice in order for a turn over.
2. If losing initiative the closest enemy model might do two action then the turn continue.

Food for thought.

Good luck with the campaign.
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Quote Yuma; probably not if you follow rules as written.

but i say, do it anyway ;)

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Yuma
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:57 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by Yuma » Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:55 pm

if the number of models per warband is higher and the board size increased, maybe you could make the players to group their force into "units", a rolled one would then only end the turn for the corresponding band of warriors.

i wouldnt force the units to stay close together, but maybe you also create a mind skill or two for a unit leader, which would make it beneficial to at least stay within earshot of the chief (for what ever those new skills do)
also a mighty fine way to increase the story aspect i think :)

not sure how to add numbers to the idea, but after some thinking, i would make a max of 3 such sub-units, maybe the force commander can be a special 4th unit (only containing the commander itself and that affects all other units if it rolls 1s, ie end the turn)
mainly for the feel, i would want a minimum number of models in a unit, maybe 5 or so.

while playing with this idea, why not make it more messy through allowing an opposing unit its turn after one of mine botches a roll..
so the battle rages back and forth.

Yuma
Posts: 188
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:57 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by Yuma » Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:22 pm

another thing is with horde troops, we found out. its is quite hard to confront descent troops with a horde like enemy and be scary..
which would be cool for certain narrativ scenarios imo.
the problem is the sheer number of 1D6 attacks made during the hordes turn.. its not the question "do i maybe roll a turn over" anymore, its just "when do i roll a one".
thats not a problem for us per se, but somewhat denies the use of fodder troops (zombies in our case, move 3 and 2 in all other stats plus a skill or two. renown 15) to tell a story. they arent scary and to minimise loss of initiative you can actualy just use them to stand in the way or block forcebacks IF they happen to live to reach the back sides of the enemy.

we'll try it again i guess, and use the method i mentioned above, to gether some intel about it.
the other thing we'll try maybe, builds on the grouping, but carries it way beyond. like sort of a large base "monster" with several figures/sets of actions.

or maybe some fodder models just dont cause turn overs?.. we'll see.
i'll be back when we tried some stuff.

xavier_wise
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Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:40 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by xavier_wise » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:51 pm

How about increasing the number of re-rolls provided by your leader or perhaps the frequency at which you can use them? At the moment, the leader provides 3 re-rolls for the whole battle. For that, you are likely to be running a warband of around 150 points though.

With larger forces, you could double the re-rolls. For example, warbands up to 150 points - 3 re-rolls; warbands up to 300 points - 6 re-rolls; warbands up to 450 points - 9 re-rolls etc.

Another option could be that you have a re-roll provided every turn instead of a set number of re-rolls over the game. As long as your leader is alive, you can re-roll one result during that turn. In particularly large games, it could be two re-rolls during the turn.

Both of these options would give players the option to re-roll ones that result in loss of initiative. I would leave it open as just a re-roll of anything (as stated in the rules) so more daring players could choose to re-roll a different result and hope for the dreaded one not to occur.

SteveG
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Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by SteveG » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:24 pm

We had a day of playing and hit this problem. We had the following 150 point warbands.
Elves on Horseback
Horde of Goblins
Horde of Skeletons
Horde of Ratmen
Men in heavy armour

Unless they were just moving around the Hordes vs Elves or Men never got to activate all their troops.
The Elves usually didn't activate all their troops.
Three re-rolls were not enough to mitigate this effect.

I realise that this is the Fog of War mechanic in these Rules, but it does kind of discourage Cavalry or Horde troops.

One thing we thought of afterwards was if you roll a 1 the Model in question immediately looses it's activation, and so does another model nearby. Still not brilliant but not as severe as the entire warband coming to a standstill.
Or simply, if a model rolls a 1, it finishes it's activation immediately and the player moves on to their next model.

SteveG
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:09 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by SteveG » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:35 pm

Just a few more thoughts:

If a model rolls a 1

1) Leader can make a Mind check vs 4. If they fail again then that side loses initiative
2) Any model rolling a 1 immediately loses it's activation and 1 point of Mind, the player can then continue with the rest of his activations.

ST_Carl
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Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by ST_Carl » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:27 pm

Just a little aside to this thread - I discussed SteveG's original post via email directly with him as he'd contacted me that way.

colinabrett
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Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:50 pm

Re: Losing initiative for the entire army

Post by colinabrett » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:42 pm

fransotto wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:14 pm

2. If losing initiative the closest enemy model might do two action then the turn continue.
Long time since I checked in.

The campaign, and associated participation games run at a couple of shows, went well. In the end we went with fransotto's second suggestion. It represents a figure making a "fumble" and the nearest enemy taking advantage of the slip-up.

It worked quite well on a 4x4' board.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Colin

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